Sigal Avin & Ayelet Zurer: “This is a show that’s going to make you ask yourself questions and look in the mirror and shake you up a bit”
We’re here to talk about the new Apple TV series, Losing Alice, a psychological thriller written and directed by Sigal Avin (Irreversible, #That’sHarassment) and starring Ayelet Zurer (Angels & Demons, Man of Steel, Munich).
Sigal, Losing Alice is a show that seems to revel in pushing its character to the very edge and it often gets dark. Were you ever concerned that you were pushing them too far or was there a part of you that wanted to push them even further?
SA: I don’t think I wanted to push them further. If I felt I could, I guess I would have. But that was always part of it. I dealt with it like an eight part film and it’s not a show for escapism. This is a show that’s going to make you ask yourself questions and look in the mirror and shake you up a bit. So, that’s exactly what I wanted to do and deal with.
I believe you’ve described this show as a Faustian tale. Was it always your intention to tell a Faustian story or did elements of that work their way into your writing process?
SA: From the beginning, the Faustian part was a woman who seems to have it all but is not satisfied. And then it asks the question of whether you can ever really be satisfied. So, if I fulfill myself with the art I’m doing and get to somewhere I’m aiming, will I be satisfied then? And then, what am I willing to pay to get to that point?
Ayelet, Alice is a character who has to deal with heavy themes throughout the series, such as adultery, this crisis of identity, getting older. What were the moments you personally found the toughest to get into and what are you most proud of having achieved whilst working on the show?
AZ: I can’t say that there’s one particular moment, it was the journey that affected me. The ups and downs of it. It’s a challenging show to shoot as an actress, especially as we shot per location. For example, we shot all the bedroom scenes in three days. So, I have to go from one extreme emotion to the other side of the spectrum, in just a few hours and the whole shoot was like that for me. That was a challenge and I’m proud of that. Although I don’t think proud is the right word to describe anything I feel towards this particular journey. It’s just a crazy experience to even film something like this, the role is really challenging but it’s also really fun. It’s a paradox.
SA: As an actress, she pushed herself all the way in, as I did as a writer. It is both challenging and very fun. It’s fun going to the edge.
AZ: Very much like Alice, actually. We’re very similar in that way. I feel like me, Sigal and even Lihi [Kornowski] in a way are very similar in that we like to push ourselves to the extreme.
SA: It’s addictive.
AZ: I think the addiction is also you jumping into a world that’s not really you. Artists do that, they want to disappear. I call it a museum, almost like you’re going into a different museum. There’s something very fun and very human and spiritual about it.
SA: And it should be that way for the viewer, as well. You’re going into these dark scenes and you’re going into your subconscious. It’s edgy, but it’s fun, too.
There are a lot of conversational scenes that help push everything forward, but particularly with Alice, there are lots of twists and turns made without any dialogue. For example, an Instagram post, a Whatsapp message, whatever it is clearly Sigal wants us to draw a conclusion based on Alice’s reaction. Ayelet, did you feel any extra pressure being the guiding force for being these narrative twists, sometimes without even having to say any words?
AZ: I love it. These are my favourite moments because you get to live inside the character and inside the situation. And if you don’t do that, if you lie or cheat, the camera picks it up.
SA: She is so amazing, I have to say. At the end of Episode 7, there was a description in the script that I wrote and everyone who read that said, ‘no actress is going to be able to do that’. It was a scene where you have to see that the actress is both devastated and proud and Ayelet has the ability of doing exactly that.
It’s interesting you bring that up, I pulled up that scene in my review, actually. Because it is just this raw emotional outpouring of every feeling.
AZ: It is those scenes I love the most. Sigal’s writing is almost like a novel so when you get the script, you have all these emotions written in it. And I’ve read it so many times. Part of my process is just in reading it again and again, looking for lies. Lies that Alice tells herself that are really deep inside the writing, hiding inside the descriptions as well. It starts with the writing.
Absolutely. Is it safe to say then that there are times when director Sigal worked her way into the performance of Alice, be it consciously or subconsciously?
AZ: Subconsciously is completely right, I think she did. I had a game at the beginning. I went through the script, finding all the lies and texting Sigal the lies that Alice says about herself. It made me really understand some things that Alice is and it’s amazing to feel Sigal, subconsciously, within her writing. It was very reassuring.
SA: Oliver, now I’m curious to hear what you had to say about the end of Episode 7?
It was just immense acting, my favourite episode of the show. Sigal, I did want to talk to you about the music choices. There would be points throughout where a song would kick in and exemplify every mood the viewer was intended to feel. The end credits as well had great songs that would either feel reflective or rather tongue in cheek. Were these music choices all yours?
SA: A lot of the music had to be changed after being shot in Israel. But I write with music and I direct with music. I use music all the time, so a lot of the soundtrack is often choices I’ve written into the script or music that I was writing with.
AZ: In the work, Sigal used a lot of music. She would play a certain song on set and then we would go into the scene, just to have us in the mood she imagined. She may or may not use the same song in the final cut, but definitely those pieces of music were affecting us. At some points, I got so used to it, if Sigal didn’t play music, I would go, ‘wait a minute, I don’t know what I'm doing!’
Clearly, a useful tool then. What advice would you give to any young women looking to make it into the film industry, be it as a writer, actor, director?
SA: For anybody trying to break into the writing side, it would be to try and write the truth. Try and write something real. Even if you’re using a genre that’s a bit lifted from reality, I think that when you say something about yourself, that’s something that can really capture the audience. People can tell when you’re trying to tell something, or deal with something that is real. It's great to listen to people, but if you really know something, then just go with it.