Alexandra Dalsbaek: "I wish I could have more of an impact with this film but unfortunately, there are very few Russian festivals which would take the risk to show this kind of film"
VISIONS DU REELCLAPPER: You were born in France but live in Russia. What is it like to be a documentary filmmaker in Russia, especially currently?
ALEXANDRA DALSBAEK: I was born and raised in France but Russia has always been my second home. Half of my family is Russian and I've spent most of my life in Lyon, but we went to Moscow every year on holidays. When I decided to settle in Moscow in 2014 it was mostly because it was difficult to find a job in France. At the time I didn't know anything about filmmaking and I started working in Moscow as a production assistant and later a video journalist with French media. At the same time, I started volunteering at a Moscow NGO where a friend of mine was working with young adults with Down syndrome. They practiced theatre and dance and were preparing a new play. I was very involved in this process and as it became an obsession I talked about it to my friend the director/producer Maria Yatskova, who convinced me to start filming this story.
Maria then decided to produce this idea that became my first documentary "Cinderella Syndrome" which premiered in 2019. I was lucky enough to find a story which I wanted to share with an audience and a producer who believed in me and mentored me at that time and later when I started filming "We are Russia". For me working in Russia is extremely interesting as it is a way to try to understand this country which is my second culture but where I didn't grow up. And I have so much to learn! Of course, one big difference between filming in France and Russia is probably that some subjects are more difficult to film in Russia, especially when it involves politics. But contrary to popular opinion that it's impossible to be a journalist/filmmaker in Russia, I rapidly noticed that you're relatively free to work here as long as you're not an activist yourself. But you must be careful with what you publish and write on the Internet. There is a special "anti-extremism center" which controls publications on social media and some subjects are taboo. Recently with the coronavirus pandemic, there are Russian independent journalists who were forced to remove their publications about death figures and who face trials in accordance with a recent law about “fake news”.
How has your path been as a woman in film? Was is it a difficult mountain to climb or convince others you wanted to explore this field considering the lack of funds and opportunities available for filmmakers like yourself?
The main difficulty was to convince others that I could make a movie. I wasn't coming from any journalism or cinema school and I also had to convince myself that I could learn in the field and that being self-taught is not a crime. The lack of funds is surely a big problem for filmmakers in Russia, just like anywhere, and actually I think the only solution here is to be financed by the Russian Ministry of culture or to have foreign backing. But we didn't explore these roads, because obviously The Ministry of Culture wouldn't have financed a film about Russian opposition activists. In fact, when we started the process of filming "We are Russia" we decided straight away that the events on the ground were happening too quickly for grant applications and pitching forums.
We felt that our time and resources would be better spent on filming and editing. I worked in parallel as a production manager and freelance video journalist for French media and Maria had other commitments as well. Plus, it was important for me to be free to film at my own rhythm. Of course, when I saw that just before the elections a few documentaries about Russian opposition were already edited and ready for broadcast on foreign TV, I thought maybe we had the wrong strategy. But later I understood that if we weren't independent the film would have been totally different. For example, the last scene which I filmed after the elections: if I had had a deadline linked to March 2018 elections, this scene would have never existed and it’s one of the most powerful moments in the film!
How did the project We Are Russia originate?
On March 26, 2017, exactly one year before March 2018 Russian presidential elections, I went to a protest meeting in Moscow, which was initiated by one of the main Russian opposition leaders Alexey Navalny. On that day anti-corruption protests took place across Russia and hundreds of people were arrested. This was the biggest unauthorized demonstration in years. I went there as a journalist and I was amazed by the huge number of people and especially young protesters. Many of them looked like they were 16 years old or even less. Something extraordinary was happening: a new generation of Russians were taking the streets, while I was used to hearing that Russian opposition was dead since the massive protests of 2011-2013. Besides, I was coming from a country where a mass demonstration is something normal.
When you grow up in France, you live with the idea that freedom of speech is one of your inalienable democratic rights. A few days later Maria and I decided that there is a film to be made here about these young protesters. I started to look for characters and I decided to attend meetings at Alexey Navalny's HQ. I also attended several trials. When I met Nikolay and Milena, the main characters of "We are Russia" I had no issues with getting their permission to film them. It was quite laid-back with Milena because she readily gave me access to her life. With Nikolay it was less easy, he was very nice to me but it was difficult to have access to his private life and I could only film him in his political life. It was even more difficult with the secondary characters of the film because most of them were quite suspicious of me. It took me a lot of time to convince them they could trust me.
Russian opposition usually have a lot of problems with provocateurs. These people are pro-Kremlin activists who do their best to provoke opposition activists during demonstrations in order to get them arrested by the police. Different kinds of provocateurs sometimes would rush into Navalny's HQs across Russia to destroy everything in their path or just yell and scream while filming themselves. Their goal being to discredit the opposition. During the first six month of my filming, several opposition activists I met thought that I was one of these pro-Kremlin provocateurs. I also had to convince the chiefs of Navalny's HQ that I wasn't the enemy. It was morally exhausting.
Your film doesn’t waste any time explaining anything to the viewer. Do you trust the audience to know roughly what’s going on in Russia?
I don't think everything should be explained to the audience and I knew from the very beginning that I didn't want to use a voice-over. I didn't want to make an educational movie. I wanted to go for a pure cinema verité style. People can watch the film and make their own conclusions. I decided to film during one year what was happening with these young activists, who are a new generation of Russians, very brave, idealistic and very connected. It's a film about their confrontation with the older generation of Muscovites who got used to a kind of political and economic stability during Vladimir Putin's twenty years in power and who remember Soviet times.
They prefer keeping quiet and see Putin as a kind of saviour of Russia's sovereignty. On the contrary the young people I filmed believe that change is possible and are ready to take huge risks to fight the system. During Navalny's anti-Putin re-election campaign, these activists knew that they could be excluded from university or that their parents could lose their jobs. They even could face prison sentences for attending protest marches (and it is still topical in today's Russia).
That is what was particularly shocking for me as a French citizen. Some of them were probably guided by youthful exuberance, but I met and filmed activists who were not only passionate and idealistic but who also had learned each point of their legal rights according to the Russian Constitution and who took their political action very seriously, not just as a rebellious game. With "We are Russia" I wanted to tell the audience: look at what is happening in Russia, look at these young people's tools and the methods they use in their attempt to make the Russian political establishment take notice and what can be the consequences for them. As far as I’m concerned, the details of the Russian political context and the figure of Alexey Navalny are not the main themes of this film.
Do you see this film primarily as a source of information, a piece of political activism or something else entirely?
I wouldn't say that "We are Russia" is a piece of political activism. My goal was to show what was happening to people who tried to defend democratic principles in Russia. I was of course appalled by the permanent harassment and injustice they had to face. The title of the film is one of their slogans. "We are Russia" means "listen to us, we are Russian citizens too and our opinion counts". Russian opposition has very few means to be heard. Their only tool to be heard is the Internet. They are ignored by the powers that be and you will never see Alexey Navalny or any other opposition leader or activist on Russian TV, or only in defamatory and provocative reports.
Several scenes in the film, like the one in Lubyanka and the one where boys hang a banner on the bridge, are quite frightening. Were you ever in danger yourself?
The police checked my ID a few times when I was filming the activists doing "solitary pickets" which is the only form of public protest remaining in Russia for which no authorization is needed. The rules are very strict: two protesters can't be standing together with a placard, they must stand at least 50 meters apart; otherwise, it would be an unsanctioned rally and they can't give the placard to each other from hand to hand.
The main danger would have been if the police officers thought I was an activist myself, then they would have had a reason to take me together with the activist to the police station. But I was always filming and not picketing. And filming in a public space is not forbidden in Russia yet. Usually, during demonstrations Russian police don't arrest people who are filming. But, of course, it can happen. Some of my colleagues were arrested during demonstrations and quickly released. I guess my camera helped me avoid problems.
Were you able to obtain all the footage freely or did you have to sneak the camera into some places?
I sometimes had to be discreet when I was filming the police and in a few other scenes but mostly it was all done in a free and open manner. For the scene at the polling station and during the trials I had obtained an authorization to film.
Is there anything you had to leave out of the final cut of the film because it could potentially endanger you or the people you filmed?
When I had just started filming there was a character that we were very enamored by. I can’t get into details but she was doing some very amazing and moving work. However, with time we learned that her family was pro-Kremlin. While this had a lot of dramatic potential for the film we realized that we would be putting all of them in a situation that could be at the very least uncomfortable. We had many discussions about this with her as well and ultimately decided not to have her as a character in the film.
On a few occasions, you managed to capture confrontations between your subjects (who are very young) and Putin’s followers (who are mostly older). Could you comment on this divide? What is the view from the “other side” of it?
The title "We are Russia" also concerns the other side, these adults who confront the young activists in the film. These people also represent Russia. And they are a very big crowd. When I went to the huge pro-Putin rally at Luzhniki stadium in Moscow, I saw a lot of people who didn't know what they were doing here. Many of them were factory workers, students or state employees taken there by special buses who were given a day off to attend this rally and who didn't really have a choice. Some people were even paid 4 or 5 dollars for their participation. For senior citizens especially it’s a big enough incentive.
But among the 100.000 people who attended this rally there were certainly people who sincerely support Vladimir Putin. Obviously, this huge event was organized only to show on Russian TV that Putin was supported by a big crowd, but it was his only participation in a rally before his re-election. There wasn't any proper election campaign nor any debates. Nevertheless, all through 2017, the anti-Navalny and anti-opposition campaign at large was very effective and the state propaganda journalists had managed to convince Russian adults who mostly still watch TV that Alexey Navalny was an enemy financed by the West. A real online war was also led by pro-Kremlin trolls on the Internet. It wasn't surprising then that the characters of my film were attacked by Putin's followers on the streets of Moscow.
The film ends on a rather dark note, hinting that Putin’s persecution of his opposition is in fact working. Do you wish your film would impact on this in any way (raise international awareness or convince more Russian youth to stand up to this)?
I wish I could have more of an impact with this film but unfortunately, there are very few Russian festivals which would take the risk to show this kind of film, apart from the Russian Open Documentary Film Festival “Artdocfest” in Moscow whose director Vitaly Mansky does everything he can to avoid self-censorship. The only way to show "We are Russia" to a large audience in Russia would be to broadcast it on an independent internet channel such as TV Rain for example. Concerning international awareness, I would say that I'd like people in the West to see how difficult it is to be an opposition activist in Russia and to make some French Kremlin admirers I know understand that reality is not as black and white as they imagine. They think Vladimir Putin and the current political system is the best that could happen to Russia. The young people I have filmed want something better for their country.
With this film being released to festival audiences, do you feel your career prospects in Russia could be impacted? Do you fear backlash on behalf of Putin’s government?
It’s hard to say, honestly. There are quite a lot of Russian independent media on the Internet and they regularly make reports or publish documentaries about the opposition. Russian Opposition leaders themselves are also very present on the Internet for now. The most important for the authorities is that films like mine are not visible by a wide audience as on state TV for example.
What’s next for Alexandra Dalsbaek? Do you want to continue on the political path or change tack and do something completely different? Or perhaps change genre?
I'm currently working on a very different project. I met a former prisoner in the Russian Far North, about 2000 km from Moscow. He's a very colourful and impressive character. His world is radically different from "We are Russia" characters’ lives and he has his own very particular idea about politics and Russia. I already visited him twice and I hope I'll have the possibility to film him and his family again as soon as possible. I can't live in Russia and just content myself with what happens in Moscow. I want to use my voice and express myself about the world I live in through cinema. Whether those stories are political, or artistic, or environmental, it’s all part of the broader human experience that I want to capture and share with an audience.
WE ARE RUSSIA premiered at Visions du Reel and is awaiting international release. Read CLAPPER’s review here
